September 2002

/ Would your girlfriend sleep with a GM for free stuff? - Sunday, September 29, 2002 - Coke
From: *******@*******
To: evilcoke111@yahoo.com
Subject: a little something
Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2002 12:20:24 -0400 (EDT)

I don't know if you guys care about this kind of thing or not but I just wanted to tell someone about this.

First of all let me tell you that I am 27 years old. I have been playing Everquest for about 3 years now. Pathetic and said, I know. But I met my now ex-girlfriend through Everquest. Now that I think about it I guess that was a bad sign to begin with. We met at an EQ convention and we found out we lived within 20 miles of each other. She caught my attention because she was dressed up as Firiona Vie. I know I am a geek by saying this but I thought she was hot. To make a long story short we started dating and within a month of us meeting she moved in with me.

Things were great for a few months. I was crazy about her, I bought her gifts and I even used my credit to get her a new car. I got her into my guild on *server name removed* and we would play together every night after work. It was a dream relationship. The couple who plays together stays together, right? Nope.

A few months into our relationship she stopped playing EQ with me and she would play it all day when I was at work. One night I came home early and she was in a deserted inn in Freeport talking to someone in the game. I walked over to her and looked over her shoulder and she quickly scrolled the chat window so I couldn't see what she was saying. She was talking to a GM, his name was *name removed*. I asked her if there was a problem and she said she was just talking with a 'friend'.

A few nights later we were playing EQ and I saw she had a full suit of Cobalt armor. She had a mid level warrior that I had helped to outfit with decent equipment. But now she had some of the best warrior gear in the game. She had the bracer, the breastplate, the leggings, everything. I asked her where she got the armor and she said her friend gave it to her, the guy I had seen her talking to the other night. I was suspicious that a GM would give her equipment, I thought that was against the rules. But I didn't say anything because I was glad she had better equipment. It was better than what I had.

So she started hanging out with this GM in the game more. He would just show up where she was fighting. She was not trying to hide it from me but when I wanted to see what he was saying to her she got defensive and said I was invading her privacy. She said she knew this guy from an EQ convention and they were just friends. I was jealous at this point and I had a gut feeling something was going on. I admit I did a sleezy thing and one night while she was sleeping I logged onto her computer and read her email. She had dozens of emails from this guy and they read like a diary of her relationship with him. While I was at work she had gone to lunch with this guy a few times behind my back and they were flirting with each other in the emails. I was pissed. I logged onto her EQ account, I was going to delete her character. I calmed down a little and just logged on as her. I immedietely got a tell from this guy, "Hi sweetheart, thought you were going to bed?"

I /q'ed out and woke her up. We had a huge fight and she admitted to me she had been cheating on me with this guy. She moved out of my apartment that night.

I still cared for her and I made several attempts to get her back but she wanted to be with this other guy. We decided to try and remain friends. I hadn't seen her in the game for awhile and I wrote her an email and she told me he had her account moved to the server he played on *server name removed*. He was the guild leader of a certain uber guild *guild name removed*, and got her into the guild. I guess she still trusted me as I was still making the payments on her car.

I guess my motivation for telling you this is sour grapes. That and I just had the need to tell someone. I feel hurt and betrayed and I feel all of this was brought on by a member of Sony who abused his power. I sent an email to Verant but I never got a response. I don't think they care. If you'd like to verify any of this her name is *name removed* and I am *name removed* on Tholuxe Paels. She will probably be pissed at me for this but I don't give a crap anymore.

-----

So far my attempts to verify any of the claims made in this email have been unsuccessful.

hmm... I wonder if I let my girlfriend sleep with Lum if he would give me free stuff in DAoC? She's gotta be worth at least a relic or an artifact or two...

This is a link to the forum thread.

/ As Fast As I Can! - Saturday, September 28, 2002 - D 0ne


/ As Fast As I can! - Friday, September 27, 2002 - D 0ne


/ Uh-Okay - Thursday, September 26, 2002 - D 0ne


/ As Fast As I Can! - Thursday, September 26, 2002 - D 0ne


/ I really wanted to spend today "Under the Radar" - Wednesday, September 25, 2002 - D 0ne
From you know who:
"Hey.. I thought you guys would like to read the super sekrit posts from Grimwell Angelstorm and Selby..

Lumfan1 posted a link at waterthread.org for some forum software that selby had setup for them to use while p2p was down.. Apparently they have decided to start chargin $2 a month when the site comes back up.


Please don't tell anyone who mailed this to you.


Here is a link to the thread in which lumfan1 made the post:
http://waterthread.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=437&start=105


They immediately brought down the server, but not before I got to read all of the threads, including the one I attached. I copied it from my cache because it was such a fun read.


BTW: The name of their forum was Test Shack. Which is why I named the file testshack3.htm. I saved a few more off but it was mostly Grimwell bitching about the "community". Nothing really worth reading."

I have no comments.

The html sent to me.

Discuss.

/ Caught cheating or victim of the Mythic nazi's? - Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - Coke
[This was deleted from the Percival VN forums, not locked - deleted, my account was then banned with no reason given, below is the complete text of my original post, if you copy it over somewhere, I'd be interested to know, PM or reply]

---


Few of the frequent visitors of this board are unfamiliar with my dissapearance from the Herald. I have refused to comment on the surrounding mess during the past two weeks because I was certain that this was a genuine mistake; that if I took it through official channels correctly, it would be addressed and handled properly. I write this now to tell you all I was wrong, and offer my perspective on being wrongfully removed from the game. I URGE ALL OF YOU TO READ THE COMPLETE TEXT OF ALL E-MAILS AND EXPLANATIONS WITHIN BEFORE RESPONDING.

I want to start off and say that I know that the majority of you are not going to believe me. I've seen the flames at my attempts to defend myself already. I'm not concerned with that anymore. I removed myself from the realm of caring back when I saw what the ugly side of some people on this server was really like, and it made me want to never come back.

Therefore, the purpose of this composition is to inform you all of the facts, to allow each of you to make up your own mind, and to expose the arbitrary and improper procedures Mythic can use against YOU, regardless of wether or not you violate the rules.

That being said, lets review what happened.

---

On the night that shall come into question, we had a full group of 8 in Emain. Crystalyn was driving this night, and I noted nothing suspicious in her actions, same as ever. I've appealed people for cheating before, even two from my own realm. Based on my own experience in RvR, which is rather extensive, I think I'm an excellent judge of when people act fishy. I don't recall the other members of the group outside of myself, Crys, Ossigor, Shames and Raterich.

We were running our usual RvR squad, and were not doing well. We were being steamrolled most of the night, until we started hanging in Breifine and taking on groups of 8-16 hibs near Bolg. We were doing ok, but we were taking heavy casualties per fight, and it was becoming frustrating. At approximately 4:30 in the morning, we were in Emain and encountered a large group of Hibernians who promptly killed us. Mid-fight, I was using snare style on Baczshot as he tried to chase Rat, and I lost connection. I noticed the message 'You have been booted' on the bottom of my chat box. I thought maybe the zone crashed, however when I tried to log back in a message box popped up to tell me my account was suspended. I logged into a friends account to appeal and see if I could get more information.

When I finally did hear from a CSR, I was told an e-mail was automatically generated and that I'd have to take it up with the dispute@darkageofcamelot.com e-mail address. It took about an hour for my appeal to be answered, and the e-mail showed up around the same time. Here is a copy of said email:

---

Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2002 04:15:48 -0400
From: Mythic Entertainment
To: rayn@tribalwar.com
Subject: Your Dark Age of Camelot account



Your account for Mythic Entertainment's game "Dark Age of Camelot" has been temporarily suspended for 7 day(s) due to violations of our Code of Conduct. You will be able to log into this account after the suspension period expires. The details of the violations are as follows:

CSR ticket number 1116579

Server: Percival
Account Name: RAYN
Character Name: Rayn


On 9/7/02 at approximately 4:30am EDT, customer was logged and subsequently observed using a Radar/Mapping program by Mythic Employees. This is in direct violation of our Terms of Service and Rules of Conduct. It is clearly written under "prohibited conduct":


PLAYER MAY NOT USE THE DAoC SERVICES TO:



14. Use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools. Use of these
types of programs will result in immediate termination of the Account and
may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability.


=====
Under our disciplinary policy:


5. We may Banish (cancel) the account permanently. Only the Supervisor of Game Support or the CS Director may do this. If this happens we will mark the account as Banished with all details about the investigation. The player will be sent an e-mail explaining exactly what happened, why it happened and what exactly it means.


=====
In the document "Detailed List of Policy Violations and Disciplinary Actions":


Using any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools. Immediate banishment will occur.


=====
And in the End User License Agreement:


12. Termination
* Either you or Mythic may terminate your Account at any without further obligation to the other.
* We may terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or repeatedly infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon gameplay, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game as set forth in the player rules of conduct, which are posted at http://support.darkageofcamelot.com.
* Members whose Accounts have been terminated by Mythic may not access the Game in any manner or any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of Mythic. Active Members may not knowingly allow former Members whose Accounts have been terminated to use the active Member's Accounts.
* IF EITHER PARTY TERMINATES THIS AGREEMENT, THE ACCOUNT WILL BE CLOSED AND MYTHIC WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR THE BALANCE OF ANY PREPAID PERIOD WITHOUT ANY REFUND. WE MAY ALSO TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT IF WE DECIDE, IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCONTINUE OFFERING THE GAME, IN WHICH CASE WE MAY PROVIDE YOU, BUT ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO DO SO, WITH A PRORATED REFUND OF ANY PREPAID AMOUNTS. ANY PART OF THE ACCOUNT, CHARACTERS OR DATA STORED THEREON WILL BE LOST AND YOU WITL NOT BE ABLE TO TRANSFER OR ASSIGN THEM TO ANY OTHER ACCOUNTS. IN THE EVENT THAT THE ACCOUNT IS TERMINATED, MYTHIC RESERVES THE RIGHT TO TERMINATE ANY AND ALL OTHER ACCOUNTS THAT SHARE THE MEMBER NAME, PHONE NUMBER, EMAIL ADDRESS, INTERNET PROTOCOL ADDRESS OR CREDIT CARD NUMBER WITH THE TERMINATED ACCOUNT.

If you wish to dispute the actions taken against your account, you may email dispute@darkageofcamelot.com.

Thank you,
Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support

---

I was pretty shocked. I got a hold of Crys and she verified she'd been suspended too. I wrote back that morning, as I couldn't sleep and couldn't get an answer. My letter to them is as follows:

---

To: Mythic Entertainment
Subject: Re: Your Dark Age of Camelot account

To whomever it may concern:

I would like to be provided with whatever logs it is that showed me to be using a 'Radar/Mapping program' .

First off, I would like to say I am aware via the VN Boards that due to me killing high profile Hibernians with influence over large guilds, that I am being repeatedly appealed for cheating suspicions. Recently, I was the target of what can only be described as a huge smear campaign from these people who cannot stand to lose. I don't win all the time, but apparently the times I do win, I'm cheating, and I'm stuck here now because -I- know I'm not cheating, but apparently if enough people complain, I will be suspended.

I am a highly aware player seasoned in pure RvR fighting. I'm a defensive armsman, I protect casters. As we travel, I play in full zoom out, switch camera angles repeatedly, and generally play smart in my opinion. Now, tonight I was auto-follow on my group leader the majority of the time. Thusly, I'm assuming you are using some other kind of proof as suspicion of my offense because if I had some of radar program, I assume

Frankly, I'd really like to be informed of what you are basing this on so I can defend myself properly.

I'm appalled that it comes to this, that some obnoxious sore loser can raise hell about me out of game and wage this kind of war on me, and that you will give in to it. I don't mean to accuse you, but I can only assume this is what happened here because I and another player were the only ones in the group suspended. We were also the only ones targetted in this libel on the boards. Thusly, I'm thinking that the guy who appealed me, who spoke to me in IRC afterwards, said 'Hey, Rayn and Crystalyn killed me while I was walking between keeps in plain sight and they must be cheating' and thus we were observed.

I'd also like to note we found some strange things tonight, like a yellow con lurikeen in a tree. When I travel, I spam F8 and watch my target box. If I get a target, I respond. This is useful for catching stealthers and people travelling through trees and such. I have a feeling this particular character was some kind of trap, being placed in a tree then dissapearing. It was yellow con, but the title over its head said defender, which I believe would be someone with 0 RP, which makes no sense for a yellow con.

Anyway, I'm rambling at this point. I don't know what to make of it. I understand its a temporary suspension, however I feel that its completely unjustified and biased.

I need details here, what is it that I do that makes you think I'm cheating? I don't understand. I need to know what the details of my 'being observed using a Radar/Mapping program'.

I think you made an assumption, a guess.

I think that's wrong. I'm trying to be civil but inside I'm boiling. I don't know what else to say.

Everyone I spoke to has been very terse. Courteous, but not helpful. Please get back to me and tell me what's going on.

Anthony

---

At this point, 6 days pass before I receive any further contact.

I called their number, they referred me to the e-mail address.

CSRs wouldn't address anything with me in-game.

I was further told by phone the wait time on the dispute@ e-mail address was 10 business days. 10.

Take special notice of the part in the above letter where I describe the discovery of a sole lurikeen defender sitting in a tree. It turns out to play a crucial role in this whole thing.

What happened was, we ran through a grove of trees, as usual I spam F8 to find anything I couldn't see due to the scenery. A yellow lurikeen pops in my target box, so I break stick with Raterich, who was stuck on me. The rest of the group continues on stuck to Crys, who didn't see said defender.

We paused, Rat and I, to look at the thing a second, a bit perplexed by the 'Defender' title over a yellow con (No RP? WTF?) and as we watched visual traces of the keen dissapeared. I called the group over and told them I had the keen on F8, and when he dissapeared I retained my target. We PBAE'd him, he didn't reappear. It was suspicious, but we continued on the rest of the night until our booting.

I showed everything to my guildmates regarding the suspension. After getting no answer for 6 days. My guildmates and friends who I'd grouped with started writing to Sanya to complain about the suspension and provide reference on my character. The response was the following post from Sanya:

---

(http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=36429978&replies=97)

There have been a few bannings from Percival lately that generated some email. I investigated each of the bannings, since they all involved cheating and radar programs.

I cannot comment on individual accounts, because that is a breach of privacy. One thing needs to be addressed publicly, though, that has been a common thread in the complaints.

Many people seem to think that we would suspend or ban a player due to the accusations of other players. That is ABSOLUTELY not true. I have been playing these sort of games for a few years, as have the people who run customer service. Y'all, we know from experience that sometimes rival guilds and players will report one another for cheating just to try and get the other guy in trouble. The ONLY thing another player's appeal causes to happen is a few minutes of watching.

As in, we get an appeal that player A is cheating. So, the CSR pops over to player A and watches him for a minute. The CSR then notes on the account one of two things. 1) "I saw nothing that looked like cheating" and closes the appeal. This note stays on the player's record, to alert us that perhaps this player is the victim of some sort of vendetta. 2) "I saw (insert suspicious behavior here)" and then escalates the appeal to the investigation team.

If "2" is selected, the investigation team watches the player for up to a week. Then we have two more options - 1) "This player is just really that good and the other players are jealous" and closes the investigation. 2) "I caught this guy red handed" and sends the case to a supervisor. If "2," the investigating CSR suspends the player in question. But we're not done yet!

If "2" is selected, the supervisor collects all the logs, the eyewitness reports, etc. Then he reads over the whole mess, and again, has two options. 1) "While this looks bad, there is a reasonable doubt in my mind, and the player should be reinstated." 2) "This player was definitely cheating, and is now banned."

But wait! There's more!

The banned player can email dispute and explain what happened. This alone has led to some reversals. But if that fails, the player can email me, and then I go over every single step and all the evidence. And if I think the evidence wasn't good enough, or if there was ANY room for doubt, then the decision is reversed.

As you can see, every step of the way, we attempt to justify why we should keep the suspected player and his business. We're trying to run a company here. It is NOT in our best interest to run people out, especially not innocent people. We do need to throw out the cheaters, because once we create the idea that cheaters are welcome, then the legitimate customers will leave to seek more even playing fields.

But I am paid by Mythic to assume that the player is innocent until *proven* guilty. The customer service people, being players themselves, automatically make that assumption. And our standard of proof is much more than we'd need in a court.

I hope this clears up any concerns y'all might have. If you're still worried about something, you can either post or email me - but again, I am not going to discuss someone else's account with anyone but that player, because it's ethically wrong to do so

---

From: Anthony [mailto:rayn@tribalwar.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 2:36 PM
To: sanya@mythicentertainment.com
Subject: Your Post on the Percival Boards, From a 'banee'


Sanya,

While I appreciate your post to address the concerns of all the people who
are publically stoning me, I'd appreciate if you hadn't posted at all
now. What you've done is condemned someone already publically
chastised. Frankly, I don't believe that your CSRs have logs or
observations, because at the end of the day, I don't cheat. I guess only I
can know that for sure, but as it stands, my account is not banned, its
suspended, and I can't get any answer.

I have 100 days played. I know I've been being appealed for the past
month. I'm very well aware of the negative attention. I think if Crys or
I did cheat, then maybe we would've taken a hint and stopped. To suggest
that we continued after all these accusations, well I know its not a good
defense, but I know I - on a few occasions - wouldn't even chase people I
knew whined, because I was tired of all my playing being questioned.

I've been run out of the realm, and now you've helped it. I'm speechless
and disgusted. What are these players going to say when I'm unsuspended
tomorrow? Or now that this has gone public, are you just going to ban me?

For the love of God, at least send me some evidence so I can defend
myself. Let me know the status of this investigation. Something. I have
had such good experiences with Mythic CS, but this just undoes all of them.

Check on the appeal, I know that I'm not guilty. I've kept my mouth shut
thus far, I'm not looking to drag Mythic through the mud, I'm dealing with
it privately, not defending myself anymore publically against this, and
hoping Mythic makes the right call in the end.

But I'm losing faith.

Please, help.

Anthony
(Rayn)

---

I really wasn't happy that Sanya had addressed this on the boards before I had even heard back from dispute. Regardless of anyone else being banned.

Here is the letter I received back from Sanya:

---

From: "Sanya"
To: "Anthony"
Subject: RE: Your Post on the Percival Boards, From a 'banee'
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 15:49:33 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
Importance: Normal


You're going to hear something today, or at most early tomorrow. (By the
way, you are definitely not the only person who got into trouble on Percival
recently, and my post easily describes four others besides you. And two
people ARE banned already, they got the letters yesterday. It is true that I
started the morning off asking to see the evidence as it pertained to you -
you have many friends - but anyone who claims that I could only have been
talking about you is delusional.)

But I can give you a preview - basically, there are several methods we use
to catch people using radar programs. I used to be able to give the explicit
reasons for banning, but every time I did that, the people who write the
programs would then add a patch designed to close out that method of
gathering evidence. And since we won't ban people without three different
proofs, we've got to have three methods that are reliable. So, for security
reasons, I can't be specific. You have to trust that I always start off
believing the player, and always argue that there might be an innocent
explanation. It's my job.

So I hope you understand that I can be no more specific than this - we have
a chat log of you identifying a target (you were speaking to your group,
telling them you saw something) as being one thing, when the only thing
showing on the screen visually was something else entirely different. When I
say different, I mean different - it's as if you told your group you'd seen
a house cat when to all *appearances* it was an igloo. That alone is enough
for a suspension. When that's combined with the other logged evidence and
hours of observing, it's a pretty tight case. But a big piece of the
evidence is your own group chat, saying you'd seen something that was not
actually there. Were it not for that, I could argue that there could be an
innocent explanation for the other actions.

If there is a reason for why you would tell your group you'd seen something
that was ENTIRELY impossible for you to have seen (again, because it wasn't
actually there), I would really like to know. By all accounts, you are a
wonderful player, a good friend to many, and a valued member of this
community - and I would love to be able to explain to the head of customer
service why we should keep you as a player.



Sanya M. Thomas
Internet Relations Manager
Mythic Entertainment
www.darkageofcamelot.com

---

At this point, I'm certain that they are referring to the lurikeen in the tree, as its very clear to me that the only time I mentioned incoming recently with any detail was when I found said trap.

I said: "lurikeen in this tree." "I have him on F8"

Thusly, at this point the accusation against me seems to center on this particular happening. I respond:

---

From: Anthony [mailto:rayn@tribalwar.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:23 PM
To: Sanya
Subject: RE: Your Post on the Percival Boards, From a 'banee'


Hi Sanya,


I've pasted in my letter to dispute.


I've read over your letter, and I wish I logged so I could accurately guess.


Here's the particular paragraph which is relevant:

I'd also like to note we found some strange things tonight, like a yellow con lurikeen in a tree. When I travel, I spam F8 and watch my target box. If I get a target, I respond. This is useful for catching stealthers and people travelling through trees and such. I have a feeling this particular character was some kind of trap, being placed in a tree then dissapearing. It was yellow con, but the title over its head said defender, which I believe would be someone with 0 RP, which makes no sense for a yellow con.

I suspect this is igloo in question as it was the main thing I saw that was weird and picked up on F8 that night. Now, I'm not sure what you think this enemy was, but I saw it, it was in a tree, it was yellow con, it said Lurikeen Defender over its head. I'm not sure of anything else that was said in groupchat that night by myself, and I'm not sure what I could possibly say that would be incriminating to that effect otherwise, so if its anything else, I simply don't believe you.

As I write this, I get my ban letter, what a surprise. Glad I was heard out on the issue.

This is a case of speculation. There's no way I'm cheating, and here I am banned.

I'm disgusted. I'm sad. Mythic McCarthyism has begun.

Anthony

---

While I wrote my response, in case you missed it, I had received my ban letter, as I suspected I would. Here's the
letter:

---

Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:00:33 -0400
From: Mythic Entertainment
To: rayn@tribalwar.com
Subject: Your Dark Age of Camelot account



Your account for Mythic Entertainment's game "Dark Age of Camelot" has been permanently terminated due to violations of our Code of Conduct. You will not be able to log into this account again. The details of the violations are as follows:

CSR ticket number 1159980

Server: Percival
Account Name: RAYN
Character Name: Rayn


On 9/7/02 at approximately 4:30am EDT, customer was logged and subsequently observed using a Radar/Mapping program by Mythic Employees. This is in direct violation of our Terms of Service and Rules of Conduct. It is clearly written under "prohibited conduct":


PLAYER MAY NOT USE THE DAoC SERVICES TO:



14. Use any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools. Use of these
types of programs will result in immediate termination of the Account and
may subject you to civil and/or criminal liability.


=====
Under our disciplinary policy:


5. We may Banish (cancel) the account permanently. Only the Supervisor of Game Support or the CS Director may do this. If this happens we will mark the account as Banished with all details about the investigation. The player will be sent an e-mail explaining exactly what happened, why it happened and what exactly it means.


=====
In the document "Detailed List of Policy Violations and Disciplinary Actions":


Using any game hacking/altering/cheating software or tools. Immediate banishment will occur.


=====
And in the End User License Agreement:


12. Termination
* Either you or Mythic may terminate your Account at any without further obligation to the other.
* We may terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or repeatedly infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon gameplay, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game as set forth in the player rules of conduct, which are posted at http://support.darkageofcamelot.com.
* Members whose Accounts have been terminated by Mythic may not access the Game in any manner or any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of Mythic. Active Members may not knowingly allow former Members whose Accounts have been terminated to use the active Member's Accounts.
* IF EITHER PARTY TERMINATES THIS AGREEMENT, THE ACCOUNT WILL BE CLOSED AND MYTHIC WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR THE BALANCE OF ANY PREPAID PERIOD WITHOUT ANY REFUND. WE MAY ALSO TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT IF WE DECIDE, IN OUR SOLE DISCRETION, TO DISCONTINUE OFFERING THE GAME, IN WHICH CASE WE MAY PROVIDE YOU, BUT ARE NOT OBLIGATED TO DO SO, WITH A PRORATED REFUND OF ANY PREPAID AMOUNTS. ANY PART OF THE ACCOUNT, CHARACTERS OR DATA STORED THEREON WILL BE LOST AND YOU WITL NOT BE ABLE TO TRANSFER OR ASSIGN THEM TO ANY OTHER ACCOUNTS. IN THE EVENT THAT THE ACCOUNT IS TERMINATED, MYTHIC RESERVES THE RIGHT TO TERMINATE ANY AND ALL OTHER ACCOUNTS THAT SHARE THE MEMBER NAME, PHONE NUMBER, EMAIL ADDRESS, INTERNET PROTOCOL ADDRESS OR CREDIT CARD NUMBER WITH THE TERMINATED ACCOUNT.

If you wish to dispute the actions taken against your account, you may email dispute@darkageofcamelot.com.

Thank you,
Dark Age of Camelot Customer Support

---

So, I have answered the question about my group chat. I know I didn't say anything else that night relevant or even remotely incriminating, except for my groupmates joking about cheating, which has become the norm since this debacle began.

I received the following reply:

---
From: "Sanya"
To: "Anthony"
Subject: RE: Your Post on the Percival Boards, From a 'banee'
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 16:30:28 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
Importance: Normal


No, you're right - but the F8 thing doesn't work beyond a certain range, and one of the *many* instances logged had your group sitting and resting, NOT moving, and definitely out of F8 range. And believe me when I tell you that the CSR who investigates things for us sets up each instance so that he starts out well out of F8 range. He started doing that months ago, when I reversed a banning where the player gave the exact explanation you did. It's only good sense to spam the F8 key as you move through hostile territory, and I did not want to catch any innocent players who were simply using good tactics.

Any ideas besides that? That's not a facetious question, as I said before, it is my job to reverse any decisions where there could be some doubt.

---

Ok, so I explained this.

Now, the story has changed. There are now multiple instances where group chat which was previously stated to be:

"a big piece of the
evidence ... saying you'd seen something that was not actually there. Were it not for that, I could argue that there could be an
innocent explanation for the other actions."

So, I'm being told on many occasions my group was sitting and resting, and jumped up and ran to things not F8 targettable, while telling my group what I was after? Horsecrap. You think no one in my group would be like 'uh, what the hell?!' Ok, so if this is the case, I think its reasonable to ask when the hell this happened, right?

So, I ask for the logs. I mean, I already have been told that the reason I'm not being given details is that they don't want the other cheaters to find out what they do to catch them.

They've already told me that its the usage of fake NPCs. Thusly, they have nothing to lose, tell me what happened and when so I can defend myself.

My request:

---

From: Anthony [mailto:rayn@tribalwar.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 5:06 PM
To: Sanya
Subject: RE: Your Post on the Percival Boards, From a 'banee'


Sanya,

I understand what your CSR is telling you, but I need to see one of these logs because I don't believe it. You've told me what you do now, I was told I'd get details, and I have yet to. This Lurikeen was not out of F8 range, and that's the only time I broke from my group's lead. That was the night I was banned.

I'm not stupid. I know I was being monitored. To suggest to me that I was sitting somewhere and said, "something something wherever" that was clearly not in view is ludicious to me. We were constantly joking about me being monitored in group chat, but you obviously aren't going to believe this.

I need to know if you're seeing these logs or getting this from a CSR.

Many instances, this is garbage. I think you've misconstrued my everyday language and group chat against me DUE TO this harassment. This would never have happened otherwise. I say blip, I say ghost, I say chug. I don't say whatever so and so northeast.

I need logs. Please, have me see some logs.

Your main argument against me is group chat. That's gotta be logged.

Anthony

---

So, I am continuing to address the one known instance where something suspicious happened. If I had not SEEN this lurikeen, and SEEN the title over his head that was protruding from the tree, I would not even know that this was a trap being used against me.

Response from Sanya:

---

From: "Sanya"
To: "Anthony"
Subject: RE: Your Post on the Percival Boards, From a 'banee'
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 18:54:20 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
Importance: Normal


I did see the logs, with my own eyes. While I do happen to personally trust the CSR who did the investigation, in my role as player advocate, I stick to facts, not warm fuzzies.

I can't emphasize this enough - no one at Mythic had any idea that you and your friend were the targets of a smear campaign. The people who investigated and made the decision do not read the Percival boards, did not count the number of appeals, and wouldn't have cared anyway.

While I was NOT aware that anyone was trying to target you at the time that I began investigating, to be perfectly frank the reason I've spent literally the entire day on this case is *because* of your assertion that people were unfairly appealing you. You seem like a good guy, you (and your friend) are articulate and reasonable, and it seems like every one of your friends has piped up on your behalf. If I HADN'T seen the logs myself I wouldn't have believed it. I've been knocking myself out trying to explain the logs, and I've been seriously stretching our security policies in an attempt to get new ideas from you.

I don't know what else to tell you. I've got one more argument to try in the morning, but after that I'm afraid the decision is going to stand. We're talking about a half dozen incidents and several hours of logs here. I cannot tell you how sorry I am.

Sanya M. Thomas
Internet Relations Manager
Mythic Entertainment
www.darkageofcamelot.com

---

There was a misunderstanding here. When I say that they banned me because of the smear campaign, I'm not necessarily suggesting that they banned me because people complained - but I DO think that is possible, look at their track record: People whine about archers, archers are nerfed. People whine about casters, casters are nerfed. People whine about me being good, I am suspended.

Anyway, I digress, my point was that since I was being appealed so frequently, I was being observed frequently, and thusly I can assume I was being watched nearly all the time. Now, if I only happened upon 6 random locations of invisible people in all that time, I think that's still a plausible amount to consider in the realm of coincidence. However, I can't say for sure still, because I'm not being given the evidence against me.

So, at this point I'm going to try and address the ambiguous cases being used against me with the hardware lag that I use to find groups.

My response:

---

To: "Sanya"
Subject: RE: Your Post on the Percival Boards, From a 'banee'
Bcc: leslie79@hotmail.com

Sanya,

I would assume you would trust your CSR and not think he was lying to you. I was suggesting that maybe he was misunderstanding something and using it against us.

That being said, your original reason for not disclosing more information was that you didn't want to disclose information to the people who make cheats. However, you've told me that your CSR set up dummy targets, first ones that were 'mismarked' and after I explained what I saw and how I did so, it became targets that were out of range and didn't exist.

I'm not asking you to tell me what was setup. I'm asking for these chat logs of what I said about something out of view so I can explain it. You asked me for a few ideas, that you were trying to work on my side, but at the same time I'm getting no clues on what it is exactly that you've found so suspicious. Not only that, I explained what happened that night with the specific target, which I immediately picked out as odd, and then the story changed to include more instances, again not described.

I've explained how I work with the engine to help me play. I know how the game works. I know if I turn a 360, and lag at a specific direction, there's something in my clipping range that way. I know that a ghost of a pet faces the direction it travels. I know the ghost of a player or group size tell me how and where nearby enemies could potentially be.

For each character you've said that I've chased that are being cited in these logs, I guarantee there were at least 3 more that were ghosts or stealthers that turned out to be nothing. I'm sorry, I don't mean to badger you, but I cannot see the situation as you described being plausible, and I'm rambling.

I don't know what you're looking at, so I'm struggling to find out what it is that is being pointed at.

Ok, I'm going to stop trying and convince you of my shock and innocence and think of facts, I understand that.

Let me be as specific as possible.

Lag Ghosts: Due to latency, images seen on my side as a player which may or may not be moving, but do not accurately reflect the location of the player, they give clues, but tend to last so long that you cannot use them to your benefit, save to say that you know an enemy is in clipping range. Attempting to attack this image will cause you to get a target out of range error. Sometimes, targetting such a player will yield strange targets such as enemies in the target box that are elsewhere in the zone, or random junk loot.

Blip: Image of a player on the clipping plane as your plane moves. Players flash into view for a second and immediately dissapear, like the old stealth bug. Always a reliable indication for enemies just out of view, sometimes ghosts may blip.

Pet Ghosts: Image of a player's pet that is almost always left behind due to latency, acts as same as a player lag ghost, but
lasts less time, faces direction the pet was travelling, and is a reliable indicator to trail someone. Almost always shows up with enchanter pets, druid trees/wolves, and spirit pets (most commonly seen, can't remember any others recently)

Chug: Hard drive grinding and video lag caused by new models entering the clipping plane. After a chug, its good practice to spin the camera to find out where the lag is coming from (DAOC's graphic engine draws everything in your line of sight, regardless of wether you can see it or not, which is why if you look at a portal keep and lag really bad, you know there's a bunch of people inside, it works the same way when you're travelling with enemies about, you also will find friendlies like this, but more rarely as you are usually travelling with nearby friendlies and our group tends to travel by themselves)

These are the major lingo we use. I am wrong quite a bit, but if I react to a ghost, and defend myself, I'm not dead. If I attack it, and I'm right, I'm not going to lose anything by reacting.

Now, a question: It is my understanding radar programs show enemy locations. That being said, an enemy is an enemy, not an igloo, or anything profoundly different. This is why I don't understand your analogy. I understand you're trying to be helpful, but I've actually come across some of these setup traps, and frankly I wonder if you know how these radar programs work, because I have a strong feeling that 'Lurikeen Defender' I found and saw was one of these igloos, and to me, he looked like an enemy. I don't understand what I could've possibly done wrong there.

A clarification: When I say you are responding to a smear campaign, I don't mean that you are trying to kick us off to save yourself the hassle, I mean that you are watching me and my play style because of the constant appeals. To be perfectly frank, the fact that you don't know about things like ghosts and lag as a player tool is disturbing. I know I'm not the only one doing this, its come up so much lately that people have talked about using it forever. This is why I am questioning your system. You don't know something I've taken as something I've relied on in basic RvR for the past year, how is this possible?

I don't think you're going after innocent players, but I think you guys are obviously missing fundamental problems in the game that people use. I am pretty surprised to hear that this is our last hope, as we are legit RvRers, and its not just the problems in the game we use to succeed.

Anyway, there, I threw out some facts, without more information, which I'm apparently not allowed access to, I don't know what else to explain. Here's the last fact, if this stands, you've banned an innocent player, and stolen something that was a major part of my life, and not one that I'd jeopardize for some silly realm points. I realize such appeals are pointless when matched against your secret logs, but I've been as reasonable as I could be throughout this, and as things look bleaker, I don't know what else to do.

Anthony

---

and the reply:

---

From: "Sanya"
To: "Anthony"
Subject: It doesn't look good, y'all
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 2002 18:54:59 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
Importance: Normal


I hope that neither of you object to me writing the same letter to both of you, but as your cases are entirely linked at this point, I felt that this was the best way to make sure you both got the same message. I'm using your character names, because I don't know if you two are acquainted in real life, and I don't want to breach your privacy.

I wish with all my heart that either of you had been able to describe what you saw when you looked at the defender. Even the head of customer service said that no matter how bad the evidence looked, that would have been enough to prove reasonable doubt.

I talked more with the investigating team today, and they walked me through the procedures they use to catch people step by step. They do it the way they do to rule out lag ghosts, as it happens. Unlike stealthing, which can leave those ghosts depending on the timing, the CSRs use a true invisibility function (it's developer only, players don't have access). They do not exist in the world as they begin the exercise, and remain stationary while they are visible. So it's not possible that it could have been a ghost (at least, not all of the more that half a dozen instances of your group heading directly for the non-existent object - I am willing to believe that he might have accidentally moved once or twice, but not every single time). And he showed me the radius he used - he would take the F8 distance, and double it before becoming visible, just to be sure that someone spamming F8 wouldn't notice him. Basically, we hate banning people, and so any method that might catch someone unfairly has been eliminated.

I know that Rayn at least is concerned (and expressing that concern in the politest possible way) that I might have been changing the Mythic story during my correspondence with you both to "ensure" you could not be innocent. I want to make sure you both understand what's been going on. Basically, I've been begging for permission to release a little more information to you in each round of emails. For instance, the explanation above was given to me when I walked into the office and said, "A HA! It might have been ghosting! I get that on my home computer all the time, a creature looks close to me, I start casting, and then the game world catches up and he's actually miles away! Maybe they just saw the CSR moving!" And they agreed that would be possible, were it not for the fact that the CSR takes pains to ensure that doesn't happen. I have wanted very much to raise a question of doubt throughout this case. Please believe me when I say that I would not tolerate any attempt at making you look bad.

I would like to say something I learned from personal experience. There's a good reason I care to the point of obsession about making sure that people are not unfairly banned - I once lost a character I'd put ten months of my free time into, for what I felt (and still feel) was no reason. The avatar had the best equipment, dozens of abilities (I used to joke that my character was better rounded than I was), and even had mastered three trade skills. Furthermore, my character was well known and well liked. It was heartbreaking to lose her. It took me a month before I had the heart to play again, and honestly, if I hadn't belonged to an awesome guild (who twinked me back up in a couple weeks), I probably would have stayed gone. I realize sympathy and 35 cents gets you a phone call, but that's all I have.

There is truly nothing I can do at this point. I *will* mention on Monday that Crystalyn asked the CSRs to monitor you, and how that doesn't make any sense if you were really cheating. I cannot fairly give you any hope, though. What I need is some plausible way to explain how you saw a monster that didn't actually exist in the form you said it was in, from beyond the range of F8, and ran after it a half a dozen times. The head of customer service is willing to cut me a lot of slack, but "I just have a feeling" is beyond that slack range. I am very sorry.

Sanya M. Thomas
Internet Relations Manager
Mythic Entertainment
www.darkageofcamelot.com

---

Alright, lets review.

We now have me being logged on 6 occasions, while I was not driving, running off towards unseen players with no logs provided to me.

This is all well and good, the CSR sets these people up out of F8 range and they are invisible.

The question that begs to be asked here is ... if this guy was invisible ... HOW DID ME AND RAT SEE HIM? Furthermore, how did I RUN to him, while Crys was driving AND RAN RIGHT PAST HIM???

We're wandering around circling, and CRYS runs us into a grove of trees, PASSES this hidden keen, I pick him up on F8 and break stick, and she continues on until I tell her I've got a target.

Thusly, I've been told the things they use are invisible. I saw it, so did Raterich, so its not true. I've been told they were out of F8 range. I got it on F8, so this is also not true.

This brings into question, in my mind, ANY of the other unnamed situations that are being used against me. I can't refute them though, because I have no idea what the hell they are.

So, I figure if I can describe what I saw exactly, and prove to them that their system is flawed, they will see that they are using a method of catching people which allows them to ensnare innocent customers.

I'm also told she'll try talking about a few things on Monday - she's referring to a letter from Crystalyn explaining how we play and what we do to approximately locate enemies using hardware lag.

Ok, so what I pick up on is I now need facts to address the only part that I am aware is being used against me:

"I wish with all my heart that either of you had been able to describe what you saw when you looked at the defender. Even the head of customer service said that no matter how bad the evidence looked, that would have been enough to prove reasonable doubt."

Response:

---

To: "Sanya"
Subject: Re: It doesn't look good, y'all
Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2002 06:02:59 -0400

Sanya,

Ok, I've read through your letter and tried to pick up on what it is I can do to prove what I've been saying. First off, I do appreciate you responding and paying this case proper attention, I'm glad someone over there will listen to what I say and give me feedback. However, I do not like this angle that things have taken where its like I'm looking for some loophole in the system to get me out. It shouldn't have to be like this, but none the less I will attempt to play by your rules.

Reviewing, I've been told that my group is running after invisible objects outside of clipping range. Now, I cannot pick out times when I was chasing something or ran in a particular direction and found nothing there, obviously that's not viable as its impossible to say what my intention was every time I moved, so I feel that if I can show you that this one particular instance described to me was not the same as you have said, that I can show the fallibility in this system. I don't like how this doesn't prove my innocence, its going to bother me, but at this point its all that is left. From here on I will focus on facts and be as to the point as possible.

"I wish with all my heart that either of you had been able to describe what you saw when you looked at the defender. Even the head of customer service said that no matter how bad the evidence looked, that would have been enough to prove reasonable doubt."

Our encounter with the lurikeen defender that night, to the best of my recollection:

- running all over Emain, Crys is driving, and I'm on lookout (I rotate camera, spam F8, and generally keep an eye on the group)
- enter a grove of trees, begin F8 spam to check for monsters and enemy players
- lurikeen pops into my target box, its a yellow con, not visible at the current time, I break stick to stop and investigate.
- /face, look at a tree to the north.
- see a lurikeen defender (marked by the title over his head protruding from the tree) sitting in the tree, but sticking out at the extremities.
- Raterich also sees the Lurikeen, as he's stuck to me, and breaks off stick when I do. No one else physically saw the keen as they were all stuck on Crys and continued moving with her until I called them back.
- /g Lurikeen in this tree, I've got him on F8.
- Lurikeen dissapears, figure he's stealthed or logged.
- Send in the cleric and wizard to AE the area. They report that he is being damaged, but not appearing.
- Group discusses the oddity of a yellow con with 0 RP sitting in the middle of a tree in Breifine.
- We move on, knowing we're being monitored and probably just found some kind of trap.

Description of the lurikeen defender:

Found sitting (I -SAW- him, he was sitting) in a tree in Breifine. No visible armor that I remember, basically his hands and feet stuck out. Title was over his head, but not fully visible, had to infer that he was a defender. That's really all I can remember that was distinct. HE WAS SITTING. If this guy was not visible, I am insane. He was there and he vanished. Its pure coincidence we found him, which is fairly normal considering we spend our time running in circles in a small area.

Image:

I have attempted to recreate what I saw upon /face'ing the target I found with F8.

http://www.protectorites.org/files/rayn/not_so_invisible.jpg

I ran all over Breifine today trying to find the exact tree, since I remember it being skinnier, but it was like looking for a needle in a haystack. My plan was to find the tree, and get my level 8 nightshade out there and in the tree so I could show what I remember. Unforunately, I got ganked 3 times, so I used photoshop to try and illustrate it.

Conclusion:

You say there are multiple instances. I chalk these other instances up to coincidental action. 6 times in my 50 hours a week of playing I darted at a phantom single from far away? I don't believe it. My reasoning is that I knew I was being watched. I knew I was being appealed. In my /g chat, it was a running joke to say "Hi tonight's CSR" when we got to Emain. This proves nothing; however, the fact is that I was intentionally avoiding doing anything that could be misconstrued as cheating, and even if I had an infiltrator relaying me exact /loc's of an enemy player, I wouldn't have beelined for them. Therefore, I can only assume that these other instances were random. Therefore, I can only address this one.

You asked me to describe the defender. I looked at it. It was a Lurikeen and it was sitting, and that was all that was visible. Check with the CSR, I don't know what else I can do to show you that I did in fact see this thing. If you think it looked like something other than a Lurikeen, you are wrong. I will gladly have a character show up in game, and screenshot what I see when the CSR repeats whatever process they used that night. If it is identical, you will see a Lurikeen as I did. I'm not sure why you doubt this, or why it entertains reasonable doubt, however I know what I saw, so I recommend you check on the workings of the trap generator and what it projects outwardly.

So, I'm responding to all I can. I hope this sheds some light on whatever it is that is causing the confusion over there, because I certainly don't know what else to tell you. I just play this game. Thanks for your time.

Anthony

---

This is a letter with no more appeals for common sense, but plain, hard facts about this supposedly INVISIBLE enemy that more than one person saw. The screenshot, if you missed it, is here (its a recreation):

http://www.protectorites.org/files/rayn/not_so_invisible.jpg

So, hey, I described it. I saw it. This is sent Saturday morning, so I'm assuming when Sanya goes to talk to folks Monday, she can show them this. I didn't hear back Monday though. I didn't hear back Tuesday. I heard back Wednesday after this:

---

From: Anthony [mailto:rayn@tribalwar.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 6:34 PM
To: Sanya
Subject: Re: It doesn't look good, y'all



Hi Sanya,


I'm really sorry to keep bothering you, but I was under the impression I'd
receive some kind of response after my last e-mail since you were going to
talk to someone on Monday.


I sent over exactly what I saw with the lurikeen.


Did the CSRs get a look at that? Anything change in my status?


Thanks so much
anthony

---

Here is the final reply:

---

From: "Sanya"
To: "Anthony"
Subject: RE: It doesn't look good, y'all
Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 11:44:47 -0400
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0)
Importance: Normal


Anthony - my apologies for not getting back to you yesterday. The below was
what I wrote up last night... and then our network crashed. If I'd had a
phone number for you, I would have called you!


****


I did talk about it. I couldn't get back to you until tonight because while
I had copies of all the logs, I DIDN'T have the screenshots. But I got to
see them this morning.


First I need to explain what I see when I look at a certain screenshot taken
while the CSR is running a development tool. I see invisible things, by
virtue of their skeletal structure.


I have seen screenshots taken throughout each encounter the CSR had with the
group. Basically, he is invisible as he gets into position. REALLY
invisible, not stealthed - the only way you can see him is if you're here at
Mythic. You CANNOT see a ghost of him at this point, because he doesn't
exist in the world (as opposed to stealthed players, which under the right
circumstances can ghost). He looks around to be sure no portion of the
character is sticking out of the tree. Given the shape he is in, it's very
unlikely that he would be - he is NOT in the form of a lurikeen or any other
race, he just has the system ID of an enemy of the realm he's testing in, so
he will show up on a radar program as an enemy - in your case, a lurikeen.
But anyway, he checks to see if he's sticking out. Then he hits F8 to see if
any player is in range. ANY player, not just the one he is investigating.
Then he uses the camera to pull back and see exactly where the group is -
he's shooting for at least double the range of F8.


If he is in within less than double the F8 range because the group moved or
whatever, he starts over from the beginning. As you might imagine, this is a
long and painful process.


Finally, he's set up. He's in the tree, he's not sticking out, and the
person he's testing is far out of F8 range. Now, and only now, he takes off
the invisibility. He does not move, jump, turn, or ANYTHING that might cause
him to ghost and appear on the screen of someone with a lower end system or
a poor connection.


If the person he is investigating jumps up and heads straight for him, he
marks it down. And repeats the process a minimum of six times.


The screenshots taken before each attempt show me an invisible investigating
character - I can see the "bones," so I know he's not sticking out of the
tree. And again, he is NOT shaped like a lurikeen, so the screenshot you
sent me (the re-creation of what you said you saw) wouldn't be possible even
if he HAD been sticking out.


Basically, the one thing you suggested that might have worked as a defense
was a ghost. We are not remotely perfect at Mythic, and although I was
assured that the CSR did not move while visible, I was willing to believe
that he might not have been careful every time. So, I asked you what you
saw. Either the shape or the color of the actual creature would have been
enough to convince me you'd seen a ghost. But there's just no way you saw a
lurikeen.


I'm sorry. I truly am.

Sanya M. Thomas
Internet Relations Manager
Mythic Entertainment
www.darkageofcamelot.com

---

"So, I asked you what you
saw. Either the shape or the color of the actual creature would have been
enough to convince me you'd seen a ghost. But there's just no way you saw a
lurikeen."

I'm being told I didn't see something I saw.

At this point, I have to give up. I know what I saw, Raterich knows what he saw, yet we're being told it was something else and/or invisible (which is it?)

So, what we have here is the possibility of the following:

1) Mythic does not know how their own system works, and cannot tell what is or isn't being displayed to the end user.
2) Mythic is willing to deal with customers who are complained about in a fashion that will satisfy whoever whines the loudest.

My final word on the issue was this:

---

To: "Sanya"
Subject: RE: It doesn't look good, y'all

One last thing.

I want to know if its possible for me to have a guildmate meet a CSR ingame and have him spawn this creature the exact same way he did with the lurikeen, only visible. My guildmate can then screenshot it, and send it to you to show you what we're really seeing. I'm telling you, your system is messed up, and we can show you.

anthony

---

That seems perfectly reasonable, no? I know I saw. I know what I saw.

Could they possibly NOT know what I saw? Either way, there's a serious problem here.

To you people who stand on the moral highground, campaigning against me in the name of the good of the game against cheaters worldwide, shut the hell up. If you were REALLY fighting for anti-cheating, you would've handled it outside of a public forum, not in a manner that would personally attack someone. In the end, you know what you accomplished? You got 2 innocent people, who were good players, banned, because you are sore losers. Furthermore, YOU INCREASED AWARENESS OF THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS. Now every newbie with an extra box or a few extra dollars can look at all this and say "HOLY CRAP! I CAN CHEAT!" and go download it. I expect Percival to have an influx of these kinds of users now, who know exactly what NOT to do to get caught.

Now, I expect most of you are going to respond with further flames, but I really don't care about that at this point, I've started playing on another server and am enjoying it somewhat, I'll probably cancel after I'm done in Thidranki, as a lot of my guild and friends are quitting in disgust.

However, I am pissed that as a paying customer, I was exploited like this.

Frankly, I don't cheat, and I have been banned.

Are you good at this game? Well then, you could easily be next. Keep whining, Mythic will answer.


-----signature-----

Rayn
Phoenix Knight of the Defenders of Albion
GM of :: http://www.protectorites.org
"Flanktastic!"
_________________
Rayn
-
Phoenix Knight, General - Defenders of Albion, Legendary Grandmaster Armorer
Finnegann Pickapenny - Rhapsodist, The Academy
Leader of the A-TEAM - Scourge of the Midgard Frontiers
-I pity the fool who goes out tryin' a' gank ma' casters, than runs home crin' to his momma when I stick my poleaxe in his monkey ass!-

*****
Full thread
here

I don't know if this guy was cheating or not but I didn't see any proof. It looks like Mythic is turning more into old school Verant every day...

/ As Fast As I Can! - Tuesday, September 24, 2002 - D 0ne


/ As Fast As I Can... - Monday, September 23, 2002 - D 0ne


/ I'm Jealous. - Saturday, September 21, 2002 - D 0ne


/ As Fast As I Can! - Saturday, September 21, 2002 - D 0ne


/ Links Frame - Friday, September 20, 2002 - D 0ne


/ My attempt to win $29.95 - Friday, September 20, 2002 - Coke
Well folks, Origin has officially gotten the snowball rolling. You can now buy pre-made characters online. By calling up their customer service department and choosing from a set of templates you can be a ready made Hero at the punch of a credit card number.

These are the type of business decisions a company makes when the stock holders are the ones calling the shots. I like to believe that the developers would never sell the integrity of their game out for a quick buck. The pencil pushers tend to be the ones who only see the bottom line and the long term implications elude them.

The long term implication here is the death of UO. There can be no “longevity” to a game when the very meat of the game, the part people spend the most time playing, can be bypassed by paying the company money. The very concept is so ridiculous to me as I do not comprehend how any game company executive could with a strait face even have proposed such an idea. In my mind paying for a character is tantamount to paying Nintendo for a cheat code to let you bypass levels in Mario; or paying Parker Brothers for boardwalk when you play Monopoly with your friends. What is next? Will the company hire out 13 year old game testers to come to your house and play the game for you? Why not just buy a video of SOMEBODY ELSE playing from level 1 to level 5,000 and then just tell your friends it was you? Pretty soon we can bypass the whole dirty act of actually playing the game altogether. That’s what this is coming down to…

But UO was dead in the water anyway. Their game, which for a long time now has been antiquated, was well on its way out the door. This was obviously a last ditch effort by a company to scrape out the last few bucks they could before the corpse went cold. But what worries me about this is that other games will take Origin’s example to heart and follow suit. Monkey see monkey do.

In a game like Everquest this could have a profound impact. Not to over dramatize the act of playing Everquest but the lower levels are a lot like boot camp. That’s where you earn your stripes and figure out your ass from a hole in the ground. There are a lot of nuances and aspects of the game that you will never learn any other way other than from experiencing them the “hard” way – first hand, slugging it out with the level one orc pawns and Skeleton_01’s. With ready made characters expect to see warriors who don’t know they are supposed to taunt, Clerics who try to complete heal the 700 hit point enchanter when mez just broke and wizards who accidentally port themselves up to Hate. If you are not familiar with any of this jargon you didn’t go to EQ boot camp.

And this is true with any other online game from Dark Age of Camelot to Anarchy online. Each game has its own nuances and aspects that high level players need to know to keep them and their friends alive. With noobs made into veterans overnight with Daddy’s credit card you will have to be extra careful in selecting your groups.

But a less tangible aspect of this is the integrity of the game is harmed. Now getting your low level character up means nothing. If you actually played the game you are a sucker because others were able to bypass it. Hopefully you aren’t playing a PvP game because then it becomes a battle of the Joneses and who has the deepest pockets. Little Jimmy just spent $50 for a level 30 character so you better spend $100 for a level 60 character to outdo him. And will they start selling equipment online too? If there is a buck to be made you better believe it. Now to stay competitive and to prevent yourself from getting ganked you have to upgrade your armor and weapons with real life cash – that or expect to get Pked by those who have bigger bank accounts.

Sound far fetched? It’s happening folks. Such radical changes don’t happen over night. One company “tests the waters” as it were, and if they make a little bit of cash another company takes the torch and goes a bit further… and then another company goes a bit further… and what Origin has done here is just the first step on a path that will eventually lead to a whole lot of suck.

Write your own rant here

/ As Fast As I can! - Friday, September 20, 2002 - D 0ne


/ I just noticed something... - Thursday, September 19, 2002 - D 0ne


/ Fast as I can! - Thursday, September 19, 2002 - D 0ne


/ It's about time. - Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - D 0ne


/ Your Guide Program... - Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - D 0ne
Posted by:Fyxlplyx

--- 2002-06-09 17:00:26 --- Rank changed to Senior

--- 2002-06-10 19:39:39 --- Password Changed

--- 2002-06-10 19:43:17 --- Password Changed

--- 2002-07-21 00:44:02 --- The following letter was sent to Aislyn following a rather nasty comment in her WSR for this week.
Greetings Aislyn, As I normally do, I was reading the WSRs that were posted for the week, I happened upon your rather unfriendly statement at the end of this report. Shortly after I noticed this statement, a fellow senior guide read it and came to be very upset about it.
"My guides have expressed concern about our latest crop of appies. I have to agree, some of these guys have no business in the Guide Program. Would it be possible to get another Help Wanted announcement as a MOTD? We’re obviously scraping the bottom of the barrel right now. "
You need to keep in mind that all candidates are graded exactly the same way that you were when you filled out the guide application, and that the grading team chair is indeed a senior guide who has access to statements of this nature. Statements like this can only cause harm. Now and then an apprentice guide shows some signs that they might not be made of gold, this is where you the senior guide, and where your guide trainers are most effective. These apprentices should be given a little extra help in learning how to become better Apprentices and ultimately better guides. Not one single one of us started out knowing everything, we all learned it from the training teams, and the SMT collectively.
In the future, please refrain from derogatory comments of this nature.

--- 2002-07-22 20:21:26 --- Email sent to Aislyn:
Greetings Aislyn, It has been brought to our attention that while on your play server you made it quiet obvious to the Guide you spoke to that you were in the Guide Program. In this conversation you directly quoted sections from the P&P, mentioned the P&P itself, mentioned the SMT, and the shadow aspect of the Program.

This violates the section 5.4.1 Off Duty

This means off duty CS Representatives do not identify themselves, in any way, shape or form, as CS Representatives on their play server, particularly when requesting assistance via the petition system or direct tells to the CS staff on the server. Off duty = normal player.

This is a serious and fundamental breach of the P&P and in the case of a Guide would normally result in their dismissal. In this case however, we feel it best that you be given a formal warning. If another breach of the P&P occurs then a demotion or removal will be considered.

--- 2002-07-22 20:35:09 --- Below are the logs of the Apprentice Guide and Guide conversations with Aislyn as a player on her play server:

RETRIEVING PETITION...PLEASE WAIT
[Sun Jul 21 02:51:09 2002] USER TEXT: Badname Specters
[Sun Jul 21 02:51:09 2002] Players in EverQuest:
[Sun Jul 21 02:51:09 2002] ---------------------------
[Sun Jul 21 02:51:09 2002] [13 Bard] Lelorinel (Wood Elf) ZONE: northkarana (USER PID CWWBUHX)
[Sun Jul 21 02:51:09 2002] There is 1 player in EverQuest.
[Sun Jul 21 02:52:16 2002] You GMSAY, 'Is Specters a bad name?'
[Sun Jul 21 02:52:28 2002] Taidin GMSAYS, 'Probably not unless the first name is Training.'
[Sun Jul 21 02:52:32 2002] You GMSAY, 'Lol'
[Sun Jul 21 02:52:45 2002] You GMSAY, 'If someone reported that should I just say "thank you for your report I will note it"'
[Sun Jul 21 02:52:49 2002] You GMSAY, 'and delete the petition?'
[Sun Jul 21 02:53:01 2002] Taidin GMSAYS, 'You can do that. Also direct them to the naming policy.'
[Sun Jul 21 02:53:14 2002] Taidin GMSAYS, 'Really no sense in leading them to believe the name will be changed.'
[Sun Jul 21 02:55:02 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'Hail and well met, Apprentice Guide Ithin at your service - What is the surname of Specters?'
[Sun Jul 21 02:55:44 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'couldnt tell, just had that firstname, saw it in shouts in GBay.. however it is in violation of 8.3.2.11 I believe'
[Sun Jul 21 02:56:41 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'Which aspect of the naming policy do you feel it violates?'
[Sun Jul 21 02:56:48 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'LMAo hold on'
[Sun Jul 21 02:56:55 2002] You tell your party, 'He said something like it violates 8.3.2.11 '
[Sun Jul 21 02:57:22 2002] You tell your party, 'And seeing as there arent bullets to the naming policy...'
[Sun Jul 21 02:57:30 2002] You tell your party, 'Im just asking how he feels it violates the naming policy'
[Sun Jul 21 02:58:37 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'It violates 8.3.2.7 which clearly states Proper names from Everquest. This also includes the first or last names of any significant RQ NPC. Read your P&P Appie. this will go to your SMT'
[Sun Jul 21 02:58:52 2002] You tell your party, 'Need a guide check on Lelorinel please'
[Sun Jul 21 02:59:19 2002] You tell your party, 'Possible hazing of sorts /cry'
[Sun Jul 21 02:59:45 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'Specters is not the proper name of any EQ NPC.'
[Sun Jul 21 02:59:49 2002] Taidin GMSAYS, 'Ahahaha. That's Senior Guide Aislyn. What'd she do?'
[Sun Jul 21 03:00:22 2002] You GMSAY, 'Telling me that it violates 8.3.2.7'
[Sun Jul 21 03:00:22 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'may I please speak to your shadow'
[Sun Jul 21 03:00:29 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'My shadow?'
[Sun Jul 21 03:00:53 2002] You tell your party, 'And then said Read your P&P appie. This will goto your SMT.'
[Sun Jul 21 03:01:06 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'yes Appie, your shadow as in the guide who should be watching over you while you are online. If you are online without a Guide+ watching you you'd better camp now'
[Sun Jul 21 03:01:14 2002] Taidin tells the group, 'Shit. /report that.'
[Sun Jul 21 03:01:35 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'Taidin is my guide online'
[Sun Jul 21 03:01:36 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'yes and tell Taidin I would very much like to speak with him'
[Sun Jul 21 03:01:47 2002] You tell your party, 'Lelorinel would like to speak with you'
[Sun Jul 21 03:01:54 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'thank you please esc this to yellow for Taidin to handle, tell him I was being testy with you'
[Sun Jul 21 03:02:12 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'I told him you would like to speak with him.'
[Sun Jul 21 03:02:18 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'thank you'
[Sun Jul 21 03:02:32 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'For future reference, spectre is not a proper name /smile'
[Sun Jul 21 03:03:17 2002] You GMSAY, ' ESC to Yellow *Lelorinel* Petitioner is Senior Guide Aislyn. Admitted to being testy with me and asked me to escalate this to Taidin.'
[Sun Jul 21 03:05:07 2002] You tell your party, 'reported all of that'
[Sun Jul 21 03:05:14 2002] Your strength fades.
[Sun Jul 21 03:05:25 2002] You tell your party, 'including where he told me if I was online alone I should camp'
[Sun Jul 21 03:05:39 2002] You tell your party, 'Rather said "Id better camp now"'


The following is the conversation Taidin had with Lelorinel:
[Sun Jul 21 00:58:35 2002] Ithin tells the group, 'Need a guide check on Lelorinel please'
[Sun Jul 21 00:58:58 2002] Players in EverQuest:
[Sun Jul 21 00:58:58 2002] ---------------------------
[Sun Jul 21 00:58:58 2002] [13 Bard] Lelorinel (Wood Elf) ZONE: northkarana (USER PID CWWBUHX)
[Sun Jul 21 00:58:58 2002] There is 1 player in EverQuest.
[Sun Jul 21 00:59:02 2002] Ithin tells the group, 'Possible hazing of sorts /cry'
[Sun Jul 21 00:59:31 2002] You GMSAY, 'Ahahaha. That's Senior Guide Aislyn. What'd she do?'
[Sun Jul 21 01:00:04 2002] Ithin GMSAYS, 'Telling me that it violates 8.3.2.7'
[Sun Jul 21 01:00:36 2002] Ithin tells the group, 'And then said Read your P&P appie. This will goto your SMT.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:00:56 2002] You tell your party, 'Shit. /report that.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:01:30 2002] Ithin tells the group, 'Lelorinel would like to speak with you'
[Sun Jul 21 01:01:35 2002] You GMSAY, '..::: Zoning - ETA 30 Seconds :::..'
[Sun Jul 21 01:01:50 2002] LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
[Sun Jul 21 01:02:13 2002] You have entered Northern Plains of Karana.
[Sun Jul 21 01:02:13 2002] You have formed the group.
[Sun Jul 21 01:02:38 2002] Lelorinel hugs Taidin.
[Sun Jul 21 01:02:52 2002] You say, 'Howdy.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:02:54 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'Thanks hon'
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:00 2002] Ithin GMSAYS, ' ESC to Yellow *Lelorinel* Petitioner is Senior Guide Aislyn. Admitted to being testy with me and asked me to escalate this to Taidin.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:10 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'so since when is Specters not a badname?'
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:29 2002] RETRIEVING PETITION...PLEASE WAIT
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:29 2002] USER TEXT: Badname Specters
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:29 2002] Players in EverQuest:
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:29 2002] ---------------------------
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:29 2002] [13 Bard] Lelorinel (Wood Elf) ZONE: northkarana (USER PID CWWBUHX)
[Sun Jul 21 01:03:29 2002] There is 1 player in EverQuest.
[Sun Jul 21 01:04:47 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'It's not a proper name from EverQuest. A spector is a type of mob. But I don't believe there's enough of an implication to suggest the player is claiming to be a spector.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:04:50 2002] Ithin tells the group, 'reported all of that'
[Sun Jul 21 01:05:08 2002] Ithin tells the group, 'including where he told me if I was online alone I should camp'
[Sun Jul 21 01:05:23 2002] Ithin tells the group, 'Rather said "Id better camp now"'
[Sun Jul 21 01:05:55 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'By the way, you really shouldn't go quoting P&P numbers to apprentices. I understand where you're coming from, but that's just not setting a good example. I surely don't want Ithin to do that on his play server.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:05:56 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'hmmmm OK tell you what...I want you to read the most recent Name Policy as outlined in 8.3.2 and 8.3.3 OK, if you still disagree with me, dotn post it for GM ignorage, if you do agree, then post it'
[Sun Jul 21 01:06:24 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'it's not the P&P its whats posted on the EQ website pertaining to the Name Policy'
[Sun Jul 21 01:06:53 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'this is information available to any player who reads the website'
[Sun Jul 21 01:07:45 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'One second. I'm getting multiple tells here.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:08:32 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'kk hon, Im not mad at all, however I have found your apprentices lack on knowledge of the name policy to be frightning in the past'
[Sun Jul 21 01:09:01 2002] Ithin GMSAYS, 'queue clear'
[Sun Jul 21 01:09:27 2002] Ithin GMSAYS, 'going to make some tea to calm down - that got me kind of worked up'
[Sun Jul 21 01:10:40 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'Well, I'm the person that told him I didn't think it was bad. I read the naming policy literally, with the *proper* names from EverQuest, with specific examples being names like Fippy, Trumpy, etc. I'll certainly see what the SMT thinks.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:11:46 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'like I said, post it or whatever, no biggie, just was letting you guys know about the name, for all the good it will do... but in all honesty, it is a bad name, whether it's spelled differently or not'
[Sun Jul 21 01:12:09 2002] You told Lelorinel, 'Yes, I will do that. But again, I really don't think quoting specific P&P numbers is a good idea. I appreciate your input, though. Have a good evening.'
[Sun Jul 21 01:12:21 2002] Lelorinel tells you, 'ok you too /salte'
[Sun Jul 21 01:12:24 2002] You snap to attention and salute Lelorinel crisply.
[Sun Jul 21 01:12:37 2002] Lelorinel snaps to attention and salutes Taidin crisply.

--- 2002-07-22 21:36:21 --- Removed the below post from The Senate:
To all of our Elders to join us at a Seniors Meetings... the one we have every other Thursday evening... and help Jessla with some of the questions we've asked, but, having been by herself, was not really able to answer for us. Many of us have questions for the Elders and it's not fair to Jessla to put her on the spot, as I feel I did at the past meeting. That is why I would like for all the Elders to join us, or, barring that, a contingent who represent the Elders, who CAN answer our questions we have put forth. I honestly feel that once we are all on the same page, and understanding in clear, we can begin to get the work done that needs doing. If Brasse brings the booze, I'll make some treats =)

--- 2002-07-22 21:46:54 --- Aislyn made a few posts over the last month demanding that Elders account for their time to the Seniors and displaying what seems to be a lack of trust in our leadership. With this in mind, she was removed from the Policy Team as we need to work closely with the Elders and have a high degree of mutual trust. The following letter was sent to her by way of explanation: Greetings Aislyn, After reviewing some of the posts you have made recently, as well as the log of the last Senior meeting, we feel that you would not be very happy on the Policy Team. The Elder Guides are the 'bosses' of each and every Senior and Guide in the Program. They direct and guide the program in a direction that will help the program to grow. They have a much better, overall view on a program-wide basis than any of us can ever have. With this in mind, they have final say on each and every policy that we work on. And we don't question their final decisions. Yes, we can make sure they have added into the equation all of our collective experiences, but we rarely will be given the information that they have access to, both directly from SOE Management and from Dev and from other groups in other areas that is considered priviledged information. We just have to trust their judgement. After reading your posts and comments, we don't feel that you could be happy with that arrangement. It seems to us that you need to know what they are doing, why, how, when, etc. We can respect that. But that isn't the kind of information we will ever have access to as we are writing, rewriting, and modifying policies. On the team we have to have trust in our leadership. Please understand that while we respect your opinions and views, we feel it would be counterproductive to have you on a team where you would have to work closely with the very people that you seem to have issues with. With this in mind, your access to the boards and Policy Team emails was removed. We wish you well in your endeavors! We hope that you understand why we feel this move is best for all concerned.

--- 2002-08-26 18:39:36 --- Aislyn's recent post on The Senate. In reply to the announcement that Star War Galaxies will not have a guide program, another senior replied "is anyone really surprised by this?". To this Aislyn replied with:

But it begs the question... if players are getting bad CS in EQ are they really going to move on to another Sony product with bad CS already being touted? It's something I honestly think they should consider.

--- 2002-08-26 19:45:09 --- Following several violations of the policies, Aislyn has been demoted from Senior Guide, to Guide, and given the opportunity to transfer to another server.

--- 2002-08-26 19:49:12 --- Rank lowered to Guide

--- 2002-09-15 18:08:03 --- Status changed to Inactive

--- 2002-09-15 18:26:02 --- During a conversation with another guide, Aislyn indicated her intent to cause damage to the Guide Program, Volunteer members of the Guide Program, and the Head GM for the Guide Program.
**** Statements from this conversation are as follows:
***** "I've been kept informed and will be after I leave, my main goal right now is to get rid of Brenlo and the Elders"
***** "LOL they did all the work themselves, I just have to get them served and publicly ostracized... easy work when people listen to you in certain places"
***** "once this cat is out of the bag the guide program as it stands now will be pretty much over"
***** "people are going to hate me for what I will do, however, Im doing it so that we can get back to helping players and stop dealing with the political BS"
***** "LOL oh you have seen nothing yet... I can do far more damage outside than I can internally, so I am retiring to do just that"
***** "nah, that heart was killed with the new Elders... I plan on a transplant tho... I may or may not be back"
Guide has been removed from the Guide Program and should not be permitted back.

--- 2002-09-18 01:44:10 --- Post made by Aislyn after she was released from the Guide Program: http://pub95.ezboard.com/fbattleforgedfrm1.showMessageRange?topicID=207.topic&start=1&stop=20

What Sony Doesn't Want You To Know
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You guys have heard me ragging on Guides and GMs in the past few weeks, and really making fun of EQ Customer Service in general. However, I have a confession to make. I am posting this here as this in the one place I can assure Sony will not be able to have the post removed.

For the past year and a half I have also been known as Guide Aislyn on the Tholuxe Paells server. Yes, your *cough* beloved *cough* guild leader was a Guide. Not only that, I proudly served as a Senior Guide for 3 months... before being demoted.

Yes, you guessed it. I was demoted and removed as a guide because I will not keep my mouth shut when I feel something needs to be said, and not only said, but shouted from the roof tops. The subject I touch on here is one near and dear to my heart, and that is Customer Service to the players of EQ.

When I was demoted and it got out as to why (I will go into this later) many asked why I was not removed. It was because of this very post. I just became a larger liability to the vaunted Powers That Be in SOE Customer Service. My gag is off and I will NOT be silenced. If you are from Sony and reading this post I ask you one thing and one thing only... prove me wrong. I rest assured that you will not.

The whole thing came to a head the day I was promoted to Senior Guide. My birthday as a matter of fact. That was the day it was announced to the guides in the programme that servers would no longer have a GM assigned to them. We would hence be blessed with a roving band of GMs who would come and blast away the red petitions (GM only) and the customers would weep with their good fortune. Oh, players wept allright. They wept in frustration that it now takes a month to get an issue resolved, if it gets resolved at all.

This is how it was supposed to work (and remember this was after they RIFed about 10 GMs) you would have a cluster of approximately 7 GMs who each had different responsibilities and two GM in this cluster who were just there for Guide Contacts to handle server issues. Each cluster has a Lead GM. These clusters were assigned to approximately 7 to 10 servers. And then there was one cluster dedicated to handle e-mail from the Contact Your GM link on the EQ site. GM Breave is the lead GM of this group and handles an ungodly amount of email. This lady gets work done.

Well what happens? Servers are ignored for weeks if not months and players and guides begin to complain. Players are petitioning day after day with no resolution in sight. Finally they give up. GMs quit in frustration. The guide programme begins to hemorrhage at the rate of 10 guides per day. Senior Guides (the administrators of each server) begin to leave in unheretofore seen numbers. Each week we are told to hang on, things will get better, we just need to get used to the new system.

Meanwhile the Grading Team Chair, who is in charge of making sure the applications for a Guide Position are properly graded so that we continue to have incoming guides for the ones who retire is told by Brenlo and Ledian in Team Chair meetings that they cannot put a Help Wanted message in a MOTD on servers or in a Patch Message because... wait for it... the developers cannot work it in. Yes, evidently the developers of EQ, the most wonderous game online, who can create the wonders we daily experience, cannot put a TEXT MESSAGE into the numerous ones we witness, like today's ad for the EQ store. In my time as a Guide we went through 3 Team Chairs on the grading Team. But as it stands now, they have graders waiting for applications that Sony does not want coming in. Sony doesn't want new guides. They dont want a Guide Programme at all. No, free Customer Service for their product is a pain in the ass, and they will no longer support it. This is amazing considering that after Brenlo's major fuck up of spawning Ragefire for two whining guilds on another server got out and they put the shards to spwan Ragefire into the next patch post haste when other players noted how this was unfair. Amazing they can do that and yet not put up a text message. I stand in utter amazement.

Thus begins the history lesson. Before EQ, 989 Studios/Verant had an online MMORPG that was a tank shoot 'em up. Not many people remember this game. The name isn't important (must not be, I can't seem to remember it myself), however, this fact is. When EQ beta testing was announced they dropped customer service on that product and let the game die. By the time EQ went client, the tank game was a fond memory (Kinda like Meridian59). Anyway, guess what was announced last month? SWG is going into bets testing. Guess what is getting shit canned in EQ? You guessed it. The mental giants at Verant(SOE) decided they will kiss EQ goodbye because we're all going to SWG and EQ2.

Now, who remembers Legends? Show of hands? Good. Legends was not a haven for the Uber at Heart. Legends is a marketing experiment. Once again you begin to see the light. Last month Brenlo announced there would be no Guide Programme for SWG. Guess what kind of Customer Service they will have there? You pay for premium service, say $40 a month and you get 24/7 Customer service. Any bells ringing yet? You don't pay for the premium service, then you can e-mail your complaint to someone who cares, only thing is, Verant/Sony isnt planning on hiring these caring individuals because they... cost money.

When I drew this perilous, heretical parallel I was demoted from Senior Guide and given the opportunity to transfer to another server. Uh huh, yeah, right Elder Guide Jessla. I wasn't demoted for being a fuck all, do-nothing Senior Guide. I was demoted for touching on a TRUTH you don't want the public to know. And BTW, I own this board, so don't bother e-mailing me asking me to remove this post. I'll shove that missive so far up your ass you will be reading it from inside your stupid one glial celled head.

Now, let me touch upon the ineptitude that resides at the highest echelons of Sony Customer Service. There are the employees of Sony, idiots like Brenlo, Mr. No Jessla and Agnieska are NOT Elder Guides because they lived in my house! And the volunteers, Like the Elder guides. Elder Semiconsious, as he is fondly referred to in the halls of SOE in San Diego, and Pending, then there are Jessla and Agnieska, two women who are so inept that a word has not yet been coined to sufficiently describe their stupidity. Jessla, in her infinite cluelessness actually locked a thread on the Common Hall (General Discussion Guide Board) written by a soldier in Germany who happens to be a Guide extolling the virtues of those who have given their life for the cause of freedom since 9-11. Yes, dangerous post, Jess. Seditious in it's very patriotic message. One Elder guide resigned after her attempts to get Agnieska and Jessla removed went nowhere. Her crime? She cared about the guide program and the players who would be effected by their stupidity.

Let me tell you why the Elders hate me. Shortly after becoming a Senior Guide I made a post asking why, after 3 years, the Elder Guides had no policy in the Policy and Procedures regarding their accountability. Everyone is accountable to someone in the guide program, so why not them? I was basically given a song and dance routine reminiscent of Vaudeville, with one guide going so far as to say that this is not a democracy. I was also written up for inviting the Elders, all of them, to a Senior Guide meeting, which we held every other week to discuss issues, because it was "sarcastic and degrading". My post was not either of these things. I mentioned that Jessla was the only Elder I ever witnessed and it did not seem fair to keep heaping all of our ire on her as she was not the only Elder Guide in the program. Another Senior Guide made another post saying the exact same thing mine did and he was not rebuked or in any other way reprimanded for his post. Selective reading? I think not. Jessla had Agnieska do this task as she was insulted and degraded by my invitation to the other Elders so she would not be beat up on all alone. I sometimes imagine her crying at her desk reading that post.

Shortly before being made Senior Guide Brenlo told the senior guides that they would no longer be able to change first names and there was a programming snafu and only GMs would be able to do first name changes now. Two weeks later the Pay For a Name Change was announced. Brenlo admitted to "misleading" the Senior Guides and apologized. Great Mea Culpa Bixie. Shows how foreign that particular action is in your life. Since then the program has been losing guides and seniors at a fairly brisk clip.

Guides are sick and tired of taking abuse from players because their GM Only issues never get resolved. Remember Darissa? She was also Sandpiper. A few weeks ago she quit the game, returning all the items I had ever given her. She had been a guide for a few months on the Povar server. She quit because of all the abuse she'd taken from the players. She found herself unable to even log in to play. She was a great guide. That's the kind of people they are running off. When I was a Senior Guide it was nothing to spend 30 hours offline handling administrative issues for my server. I was on ICQ nearly 24/7. My email box was constantly full. And I still managed to do 11+ hours a week online handling online issues. I was back guiding one week after my miscarriage because Senior Guide Glaiven told me I needed to get back to work. This is the kind of people they are running off.

The question that stuck in my mind was why? Why run off their free customer support? Why did they keep kicking us when we were already down, nearly out?

Premium Service baby. You're gonna have to pay to be ignored in SWG and EQ2. Bow down before the one you serve, Sony. You're going to get what you deserve.

Thank you, but I will not ever slip into mediocrity to please others who worship at it's altars while trying to hide their Peter Priniciple. I'm out, glad Im out, and praying that someone pulls their head out of their ass and helps the dedicated guides and GMs who do this because, despite it all, they still think they can help players. Think about that next time you file a petition that never gets answered. Maybe they all got fed up and quit, and the GMs are all in a meeting listening to Brenlo talk about how great he is to have thought of the entire scheme while keeping all us mushrooms exactly where he wants us.


Ah an IRC Log... It's too bad the person posting it didn't understand that ezboards view the name monicers are html commands and therfore doesn't show the names. A lucky break for Sony, I guess.

* Logging #eqelders to 'logs\#eqelders.log'
Please do not crack me.
Hello
I wont Brenlo hehehe
pardon my distraction for a few moments while I finish eating dinner ;)
aye, im just gonna make a super qwuick phone call here.
brb groovies
back =/
Welcome back =)
Shall we get started then? Since there is lots of stuff to go ver =)
Surely, can anyone see Pendair online?
he is not on icq
Okay Im all for starting then.
Then the first topic would be Imaryn's suggestion of my removal as an Elder so we can get that out of the way I think
yes I would like to talk about that too.
I would first like to say that I do not with to resign and I was extremely hurt by the email that was sent
Honestly, I was hurt by that letter too Imaryn...
Is she still afk?
no, I am here. I said what I had to say via email and have yet to hear any response.
so I am listening without commenting
How can anyone respond to that letter?
There is no kind way to respond.
sec phone
*** Ledian has joined #eqelders
Welcome Ledian
I do not know in what way I could respond to so many accusations, many of which I feel were incorrect and a personal attack
Sorry... Ummmm hi Ledian
Hey ledian
back sorry.
Heres my problem with that letter... in the first part of it, it was stated that you took the silken glove approach.
Unfortunately and being as the letter wasnt direct to me, i didnt see it that way =(
Hello
*** Imaryn sets mode: +o Ledian
I was shocked like crazy to see the statement that any one of us should step down.
That shouldnt be what the five of us are all about.
there is no way we are gonna agree on everything, so constructive critisism should be given but no threats, thats distructive.
Please also note, that in the time that you said no actions should be taken on any server, you have done 2 of them without any input >from the rest of us Imaryn.
This is not about me. This is about Agnie and her involvement and I'd like to hear her address the issues that I brought up in my email.
No its about the team.
There currently is no team.
There is a team if we make one though, that means we need to work together.
and that is the crux of the problem.
I havent seen one thing done by Agnie that was bad enough for one person to ask her to leave.
And both of us were speaking to the two guides, we explained the situtation and that should be in the past.
I am prepared if needed to address each issue one by one. However I will do so if everyone else requests it.
I think you should Agnie.
This might be a long meeting =)
And thats what we need right about now.
Alright, I will go in order from the beginning of the email then, if I am required to defend myself
I do not think this is about defending yourself
Rather this is about moving past these differences
So rather than dwell on that
Totally =)) good call Brenlo!
What can we do to move forward?
Well it is if I need to reply to every accusation in the letter?
Seems to me there are only 2 issues here.
Right now I feel that Imaryn is having personal issues with the way I have been doing things, and she feels I should be removed as an Elder
Agnie is a bit anxious to jump in and fix everything (which is not necessarily bad)
Its not a bad thing at all, and if done in moderation it can only help the guide program.
and the other is a lack of communication amongst yourselves about how issues are being handled
they are not personal issues.
they are PRogram issues
I have about 680 emails that say we are communicating though.
Ah yes you are exchanging emails..
But are you consulting each other on these issues such as Lilybear and the others?
and it seems to me that is where most of this problem lies
Some toes were stepped on and some things handled in a different way than others might have
So perhaps you need to talk to each other about how you intend to handle issues as well?
Let me interject here...with a question
Regarding the situation with the guides on Torv...
We do and the point of this meeting was to discuss how to handle things and work as a team
if that situation was handled so well... then why did Ledian feel it necessary to have a private "clean up" conversation with the two guides?
Pasting input from Mel.... and I agree with his statement..............Melenkurion (7:35 PM) :
Because they showed much more respect for him then they did with us Imaryn.
Everyone makes mistakes Imaryn.
could it have gone better? Yes
they were blatantly rude to us but not to ledian. How would you have handled it?
Was it a disaster? Nope
No it was NOT a disaster.
I never said it was handled well, but it was handled to the nbest of our abilities
Exactly.
See as a team you should all be able to speak for the others if need be.
Then that is the problem.
if that is the best of your ability, then you do not have the ability necessary.
Each of you should carry the entire wieght of ALL the Elders
So perhaps you need to learn about each other and your styles and approaches
Imaryn, sorry but its statments like that, that are going to make this a bad issue.
Jess, it already is a bad issue and it is getting worse by the moment.
Yes, and things WILL get a little worse before they get better, thats how these things work for the most part.
Agnie is a super person and a super elder guide.
You are a super person and a super elder guide.
Brenlo, I have no issue at all with carrying the entire weight of ALL the Elders, if those that are Elders are doing things that are in keeping with the preservation of the Program and the protection of its volunteers.
We are all great Elders and that is the reason we were all chosen to do this
No...
I dont get that Imaryn...
that isn't the reason we were "all" chosen
and you know that.
Okay why were we chosen?
Instead of saying how the situation was done poorly can we start by saying how it could have gone better perhaps?
I can tell you how it could have gone better....
It could have gone better if perhaps we reworded some things, but thats about it that went wrong.
First off - and this is how I see things.........
Imaryn, why were we chosen if its not because we were really good guides?
Nepotism is no stranger to the Program Jess, and I think we all realize that.
Im lost there again...
LOL.. Well thanks for your time folks. I can see that this is going nowhere. I have better things to do
This situation was a bad one to begin with.... I think that it could have been handled better if we could have known the guides did not wish to transfer before it happened. As it was we all missed that bit until it was too late. However it woul dhave been good to call a meeting between Kochanie and the 2 guides to see what the issues really were. It sounded like a misunderstanding that was taken out of context
*** Brenlo has quit IRC
So you are now saying we were all chosen because of nepotism?
Pasting Mel's message again
not all of us.
Did it show up?
So who then?
No Ash
I want to say that I had a hand in choosing the 4 of you.... And I choose the 4 of you because I thought you were good at what you do and would make great elder guides.
Thank you Ashlanne
I fail to see who could have possibly been appointed through nepotism
Thank you !
ok It seems I am having a problem pasting
Thank you Ledian too!
Another message from Mel
"bickering stops now - that won't solve anything at all. What we need to look at is a system agreed to by all where our strengths can be used. Lets find some solutions and leave the finger-pointing for historians (and I have solutions coming, it just takes a while to type them *smile*)"
Good call =)
I understand that Ashlanne and I am willing to work on solutions
Me too big time. =)
May have a few moments to speak without interuption? I've been quiet and answered only questions directed at me. I need 5 minutes of your time. Please refrain from commenting until I am finished please.
Good point Mel
Look guys - this program means alot to me and I don't mean because its my job. I know that the 8 of us can be a great team but we need to work things out
What I am looking for is the following:
1) While the intent of my letter was a good example of how other guides might react to a type of letter that's been recieved regarding their dismissals, or demotions....
I was purposefully intending that letter to be "shock" value.
However...
There are some very important points that I made.
However, Agnieszka you have yet to say the following:
"Yes, I did screw up. But I am willing to stay silent, learn, and listen."
I have made some pretty harsh decisions...most if not all have turned out with unfavorable results.
What can I do to "learn" how to make those decisions, or present those decisions in a manner which doesn't make me look like I don't have a clue.
If I have upset you, I would love to say I am sorry...but I am not.
While there are somethings that I do wrong, I present them properly.
With the proper intent.
"I am willing to make the tough decisions." Is a quote you made.
How about "I am willing to make the bad decisions."
Because that's what we've seen so far.
(Brenlo) No Imaryn this was not presented properly. And this personal attack crap needs to stop now.
Thank you!
This is not now, nor has it ever been a personal attack
(Brenlo) It seems to me that this is all about you having your toes stepped on
and by virtue of the fact that you feel it is "crap" tells me exactly where we are all headed.
(Brenlo) and it needs to stop
It is not about stepping on toes
I am not that shallow
I am very willing to work with everyone and make sure we can all work as a team
It's about poor decisions, and bad morale
(Brenlo) Then show you are not shallow and move past it rather than asking your peer to beg your forgiveness and teach her oh yoda
(brenlo) By the way the nepotism line.. .Classic
Interesting that you feel it is necessary to have Ledian be your mouthpiece.
Come back in and speak for yourself if you wish to attack me
Actually I am sitting at his machine Imaryn
I would think that Brenlo left for good reason Imaryn. I dont blame him.
And I am just trying to stop this
This did not begin as a personal attack. It has never been personal, it has only been about what is best for the Program and how our volunteers are being treated.
(Brenlo) So I will return Ledian his keyboard.. Best of the program in your opinion Imaryn
You have just made it personal. If we need to stop the personal attacks and get back to business, I'm all ears.
(Brenlo) Why not talk to Agnie about it instead of asking her to resign
The fact of the matter is, the last three weeks, bad decisions have been made and have been poorly executed.
(Brenlo) Maybe so. But have you helped that process or hindered it? Have you talked to Agnie about it ir behind her back?
I dont agree with that at all sadly Imaryn.
I have spoken to Agnie, I have addressed concerns via email with the group because these things affect us all
(Brenlo) Have a good night... Nepotism.. LMAO
All the issues that we dealt with over the past 3 weeks have been important and needed.
* Ledian is Ledian again.
I am not going to resign, nor am I going to sit silently. We were all put on this team to help the Guide Program and that is what I am willing to do
I have not done things perfectly, no one has as we are all still learning
Exaclty
Folks, lets move forward.... Learn from our mistakes.... I have more to paste from Mel
Okay Ashlanne =)
You cannot learn without making mistakes along the way
GRR its not working
Mel's message : "First bit of fun is to slow down what we are doing. Yes it is good to get things done, and yes that is one of the reason we became Elders, but right now it is threatening to undermine us. So we start to take it slower. If it takes an extra week to resolve an issue because of that then it is a small
price to pay - we can speed up as we gain experience. We document everything we do both via email and the message board and continue to gain 80% support for all actions. We make no unilateral actions with less it is something already approved by 80% of us previously"
That is a good plan
I think there is more...
Awesome =)
We can set up a system on the guide board where everyone replies to the issue, for example
ooo Yeah!
And set some sort of a time limit to have everyones replies by
I have something to add also
Please do Ashlanne
If we get into a situation where we are on server and guide or senior or appy wants to talk to you about something. Try to not offer a resolution then and there so we can talk about it.
Well I am not sure that would work
If its something that has already been decided upon then thats a bit different
I think maybe it would seem like we are trying to brush them off
Do not brush them off... Listen and offer advice like you normally would
But we can sit there and listen and end with "I will need to discuss this with the others and we will let you know" type of thing
Aye, thats what I have been doing Ashlanne =)
But if it is sounding like something that is going to need a removal or a transfer something of that sort, saying something like I understand blah blah but I would like to look into this further and get the others input
And me too
More from Mel
Exactly Ashlanne
Once we have slowed down we need to further clarify what each of us are going to handle. No point in five of us trying to specialise in the same fields - that is a waste of resources. We then objectively look at what we do best and assign these areas to each
other. For example Agnie handles policy far better than I do and so policy issues should be passed towards her. Jessla is good at looking at server-based issues so she
would be a roving face for us on servers and finding potential problems and solving them before they become problems etc."
Thats all for this message
I agree
I was thiking Mel can handle Senior transfers bc he knows how to do that =)
and once we all know eachothers strength we can go from there
Yeah, thats a good call...
Yall know my stregnths =))
and remind me later cuz I have a GREAT idea I would like to brush past you all!!
A pet project if you will =) /giggle
ooh
* Jessla wiggles her eyebrows.
Okay moving along then if Melenkurion has nothing else....
Is he done Ashlanne? =)
hehehe
Let me check
afk rq
ookay =))
gee spose I should turn some lights on in here huh?
a storm is a brewin hehehe
back
Welcome back =)
Shall we go over the items on the board then?
Im game if Melenkurion is all done =)
Mel is done go ahead
Go Agnie =)
Ok let's start with the easiest
awww =(
I think Sr Nom will be the longest so we can do other stuff first
Ok I suggested that we set a reply time to all our items
What kind of time frame are we looking at?
So once we post a topic on the board, we all have like 3 days or whatever to think about it and reply
Well I am thinking 3 days to a week
depending on what everyone thinks
I really think thats a good idea. I cant see things needing to wait for a month hehe
Your talking to Mel Ashlanne?
Basically that way we dont have to harass one person to put in input two weeks later and people dont have to wait for a resolution for months
No he had to go afk
okay.
* Jessla feels scolded
May I say something else before we continue?
Surely.
I came here this evening looking for a resolution and a resignation.
I see neither.
and therefore, I will make one hapen.
happen eve.
The resignation is now clearly easy. It's mine.
Good day, and god help you all.

/ History Repeats - Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - D 0ne


/ As Fast As I Can Go! - Wednesday, September 18, 2002 - D 0ne


/ - Tuesday, September 17, 2002 -